FORCE TOO HIGH?????

FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby muehlbce » February 22nd, 2016, 9:37 am

Good Morning Everyone! I hope someone can come to my rescue. IMPORTANT...Please read all, but realize my main question is in the very last paragraph. I gave you all the history up front just in case my resolve at the very end paragraph is NOT GOOD for me to continue to do. Here it goes...

Yesterday, I have been successfully cutting invitations (shaped like onesies, therefore simple cut). I was able to successfully and beautifully cut 5 of them; however this changed quickly into the 6th cut. Below are the stats, and please realize that all correct settings/factors were in place:

1. SB Pro 24"
2. SCAL 4 Pro
3. Software settings "unchecked" in SCAL
4. 65# cardstock
5. 45 degree blade
6. Regular blade holder
7. F = 500; V = 50
8. Test worked great

Now, after the 6th "messy" cut, I checked and noticed that the blade was chipped. THREW THAT ONE AWAY and started with a new one (45 degree). At this point I couldn't get blade into the holder...just won't fit for some reason even after many failed attempts. Soooo, I tried to put this new 45 degree blade into the "click blade" and it just wasn't happening there either ( :( )! This prompted me to try the 65 degree blade and this successfully inserted into the click holder (this is where I'm discovering that I think I prefer the click holder over the regular blade holder ;) ).

Now, at this point I just can't get a good cut at current F & V; so I up the force, change the "click" setting, MANY different tries at different settings, etc. Fast fwd about 1 hour ahead of trying different things to no avail so I now want to just give the 45 degree blade a try again to see if it will fit into the click holder....and for some very strange reason, I am able to get the 45 degree blade inserted into the click holder this time. I'm really baffled as to why it doesn't easily go in to either holder previously???? Nonetheless, and after many MORE attempts at different settings, etc., I have found the magic setting that is working just fine. And so here is my final question.....:

NEW, VERY HIGH BUT WORKINGS SETTINGS:
1. 65# cardstock (same as mentioned above)
2. 45 degree blade (new and not chipped)
3. Click blade holder...set at "4".
4. V = 500; F = 171 (for some reason the force set to 17"1" is a cleaner cut than just 170 force???)
The problem in my mind is that it is a VERY high setting for this type of media....so I "think". This is the rub for me and what I want to find out from seasoned users...is this new and VERY HIGH FORCE setting okay for this media and for my machine? I do realize that everyone's settings, etc. are indicative of their own machine and style of operation, but my mind is telling me this might be a little too high and I just want someone to either reassure me that it is okay to have this setting or tell me that it is waaaay too high and provide me with an alternative measure to take to correct this. Please advise.
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby Gigi » February 22nd, 2016, 11:58 am

When you put your blade in, did you use the setting tool. It sounds like it may be too high as that is a pretty high force for a relatively lightweight material. You can use that force with no problem, but your click blade setting is also very high. How much is it sticking out. It sounds like you may need to adjust the click blade holder (directions on the learning center). Its not hard and may give you better results in the long run. When you have the click blade on "1", how far is it sticking out, and how far is it out at "4".

There is more you can try but have to run off to an appt. Will check in and let others add their thoughts. I am still kind of foggy.....
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby muehlbce » February 22nd, 2016, 1:54 pm

Hi Gigi, thanks for the reply.

I did in fact try the "1" setting on the click blade holder, as well as "2" & "3". Rest assured...I tried MANY different settings and forces, and velocities, and mats etc. until I finally made this work. And yes, the "1" setting is definitely sticking out less than the "4". "4" just happens to work best. When I would run the 1, 2, & 3 click blade settings (and different forces), it did in fact cut...but no all the way through. Most of the time the cuts would be more like it was cutting stickers where I was able to pull-off the onesie but there would still be a VERY THIN layer of paper left in tact...reminded me of a sticker sheet when you pull of the sticker but there is still the bottom layer left. I'm working it with my V-500 and F-171 and it's working....I'm just keep shaking my head and thinking this can't be right!!!
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby muehlbce » February 22nd, 2016, 3:14 pm

Gigi, I figured it out!!!! :idea: :) :) :). I am obviously learning my machine and I just now decided that I just LOVE multi-cut!!! This feature is a wonderful!!! I increased the Velocity, lowered the Force to 110, and lowered the click blade to 3. I set the multi-cut to 2 and it is cutting (and peeling from mat) like butter! I am going to continue to experiment with even lower force and click blade settings...but I just wanted to let you know that this method is working wonderfully for me so far and I am very excited about that - it's the little things :D

Thanks for your help in replying before and for all you do.

Chris M.
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby Gigi » February 22nd, 2016, 5:01 pm

You are very welcome. And I am glad you have it working beautifully. But you should not need a multi-pass for 65 lb . card stock. As an example,I cut most 65 lb.at a force of 60-80 depending on the density of the card stock. And there are colors that sometimes need more TLC and you will discover that as you continue to cut.

I am still curious if you are using the setting tool and how far your blade is out - just because I want to figure out why you need to multi cut.
Good for you for hanging in there and experimenting. That is honestly the best way to learn. Keep up the good work!
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby muehlbce » February 22nd, 2016, 10:53 pm

Hi Gigi,

I did in fact use the blade setting tool. I also did NOT use it. I tried a plethora of settings, blades, holders, forces, mats, velocities, etc., etc. with and without the setting tool...still the same effect.

I do in fact agree with you about the multi-cut, and that I really shouldn't need it for this paper. I'm very baffled to be honest with you. I'm also very concerned about what could be wrong here. I would like to fix it, but I'm at a loss. Another funny thing to remember is that it did in fact work beautifully for my first five cuts. (with regular holder and 45 blade). How could it have changed so drastically after the 5th cut and I believe I did nothing wrong or different. Hmmmmmmm!!!

I'm curious, you mentioned that you typically utilize 60-80 force (depending) on 65# cardstock. Well, what blade and holder would you usually use for this?

Thank you, Chris
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby Gigi » February 23rd, 2016, 12:10 am

I didn't go back and read your previous posts, but I think you are working with a new blade, right? Put it under a magnifying glass to be sure it's not chipped. Occasionally a new one will be defective - it doesn't happen often but it does.

Is your mat warped or laying flat? If your mat is warped then that will dramatically change your cut quality. Are you still brayering each piece of card stock down rather than just pushing it with your hands?

I almost always use the click blade - it's my favorite. I keep it on 1 and it is just barely sticking out (if you have it out too far that will also change your cuts). There are others who use the click blade holder at 1 for vinyl, 3 for cardstock - they just use it differently and that is totally fine. There are some colors (like red) where you will need more force than other colors of the same make. If it's extremely humid that will change your cuts. I don't know where you are living, but humidity has plagued a lot of users negatively and they have had to dry out the cardstock.

When I have an issue, I go back to the basics. Check the blade, the mat, the adhesive on the mat, the card stock,etc. You rattled off all of the things that you have done and that can just get you more confused. Use the setting tool, be sure the blade holder if firmly in the clamp - is it slipping at all? Go back to the setting that was giving you clean cuts, do a test cut (I still always do a test cut on new card stock), cut a simple shape. Are you using the software for speed and force or the machine. Some are having issues if they use the software - so use the machine to choose your settings.

Hope something in all of this helps.
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby muehlbce » February 23rd, 2016, 8:34 am

Good Morning Gigi,

I have followed through with all that you mentioned above; however, one thing that is different is my mat(s). They definitely are not flat and are a little curled-up on the left and right sides (but just a little). I have been using 3 different mats (other vendor) as I had an assembly line set-up with the next mat at the ready to process through the machine. I'll bet this is the issue! I'm going to try a new mat today and get back with you.

Also, another test I want to try is a totally different paper vendor, but still 65#. I have been doing all of this particular project and testing on the same exact paper. Even though it "seems" like a long stretch, it could be the actual paper. Once again, I will let you know once I complete these tests...but it won't be until later today.

Thanks again for your replies, I truly appreciate it Gigi. :)
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby Gigi » February 23rd, 2016, 4:54 pm

The mat could definitely be the problem - especially using a different vendor mat. I have done that on occasion when I am experimenting, but only use the SB mats when I am working on something I care about.

And no it's not a long shot on the paper brand. Bazzill has been known to be a problem to cut where ColorMates or Stardream or a variety of others cut beautifully. Some have had success with Bazzill flipping it over and cutting from the back side which is smoother.

Good luck with your trials and please let us know what helps. And you can straighten your mats. when you have time. There are suggestions all over the forum (you can do a search). To help keep them from curling too fast, rotate them so the pinch wheels are not always going over the same track and cause the indentation.
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby muehlbce » February 24th, 2016, 12:01 am

Oh this is great info Gigi. Thank you very, very much. I never did get to test the other paper today because I learned print and cut. I just love it! I'm having so much fun :)
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby Gigi » February 24th, 2016, 12:31 am

Print and cut is addicting and fun! Glad you got the hang of it so easily.
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby muehlbce » March 1st, 2016, 12:36 pm

Hello. Well, I bought the SB mats (not sure why I didn't have them originally when I bought the machine???), and they TRULY make a difference, as you said Gigi. Thank you very much.
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby Gigi » March 1st, 2016, 1:44 pm

You are welcome. And every new machine comes with one SB mat. They are wonderful.
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby april » August 26th, 2016, 1:09 am

Hello, im APRIL from Honduras and i own my SB like 2 years ago. I mostly cut in one type of paper (not card stock but not a very thin paper either) and iv'e always used force of 180 and sometimes even 200 so that cut goes neat. Reading some info in here, i can see that's TO MUCH force! And of course i don't wanna force it that way if its not necessary. I love to work with the detail blades. And also with the 45 degree blade (normal). Its the same problem always. I've always worked with 300 velocity too. I use instructions to put the blade into the blade holder, and use also the spacer, and the coin to take out my blade. So can you please help me to know what am i doing wrong! THANK YOU <3
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Re: FORCE TOO HIGH?????

Postby Gigi » August 26th, 2016, 10:47 am

Yes that is a really HIGH force for what you are cutting. Have you changed your blade lately? It sounds like your blade is too high in the blade holder but you are using the setting guide. How far is the blade sticking out of the blade holder. When you put the blade holder in the clamp, are you putting it in tightly and low enough? Which blade holder are you using for the 45 degree blade (regular or click blade)

I used to always cut at 100-150 until convinced to cut higher - now I cut almost everything at 750. It does perform much better on most cuts at a higher speed!

Is your mat warped? That could also cause you to need more force. Be sure you are working with a flat mat.

It's hard to know what might be causing you to "need" a higher force. Can you take a picture of the blade holder in the clamp with a mat underneath? Maybe that will give us a better idea.
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