Trouble Cutting Watercolor Paper

[ngrosjean]

Hello,

I have had my machine for a couple of years now, but I am still struggling with it. I am currently trying to cut watercolor paper and no matter what blade I use, or what settings, it’s just tearing and shredding the paper. I just recently cut this same paper and I dealt with some tearing, but it wasn’t this bad, and I don’t know what’s going on. I am a cut paper artist and bought this machine to help with repetitive details, in this case I need to cut about 800 scales in watercolor paper for a dragon. This is a commission and I’m approaching the deadline, I don’t know what I’ll do if I can’t get these scales cut this week. Please help!

[Gigi]

I don't know the weight of the watercolor paper you are cutting or which blade you are using or much of anything! The more info you can give us the better.

Have you tried cutting from the back side? I have cut different kinds of water color paper often without issue but I dont know what kind you are using from the photo (hot or cold press) which brand or the weight. Have you tried switching to a different brand of water color paper? Again just throwing things out there because there is so much I don't know. Have you checked the file to be sure it's not node intensive? Have you performed a clean test cut. What force and speed are you using? Even tho this machine performs flawlessly at higher speeds, sometimes it helps to slow it down a little. Is the paper brayered down?

Did you sent your blade at the perfect height? It looks like it could be nicked as that is the most common cause of shredding. The blade could also be sticking out too much. Repeatedly changing blades isn't going to help because I cannot tell what was cut with which blade at which speed etc. I know I am throwing questions at you - but we need more info.

In the meantime, since you have cut this paper before, I would go back to whatever blade you used before, be sure it is a good blade and work until you get a clean test cut. Try cutting from the reverse side to see if that makes a different. We know there are some brands of paper , like Bazzil, that cut better from the back side. This could be true with your watercolor paper.

Also be sure your mat is clean and not warped as that can also create problems.

Is it humid where you are? If so that can drastically cause you to have difficulty especially with a watercolor paper that has "layers" of material and you may need to dry your paper out. Humidity can wreak all sorts of havoc with paper cutting.

I am answering blindly because I am guessing. If you want to send me the file and let me know what weight your paper is, I can see if I have a similar weight and see if I have issues. I have about 5 different kinds of watercolor paper and would be happy to give it a try.

Will wait for more answers from you to see if I can narrow down the issue. Try not to get frustrated as that will only create more problems as you try to problem solve. There is always an answer.... just start from the first step and having successful baby steps will get you to a successful project.

In the meantime, go back to the blade you have used with success and do a test cut successfully. Do not try the scales until you get a good test cut. Then try your file and see what happens and go from there.

[ngrosjean]

Thank you for your response! I am using hot press Canson Moulin du Roy 140lb watercolor paper. I have tried both the regular 60 degree blades and the 60 detail blades. I have tried brand new blades and old blades. I always run my machine on slower speeds as I tend to see more tearing at higher speeds. I live in Colorado, so humidity is not an issue. My mat is quite new and not warped, and the paper is brayered down. I have tried many force settings all with the same result. I have not tried cutting it from the back yet, I will give that a shot.

[Gigi]

Have you had a successful test cut? If so what force did you use? Have you tried lowering the force and cutting twice? Have you checked your file for too many nodes? Have you tested the file on regular card stock to see if there are issues? Again I would be happy to look at it.

Hasn't there been a lot of rain or snow in Colorado? That could play into it.

I would not automatically cut at a lower force. This machine does its best at a higher speed. It is only if I have something very detailed that doesnt cut perfectly in areas that I will lower the speed. I almost always do a high speed first. What velocity are you using?

I have some Canson 120 lb - that's the heaviest I have right now. I will try it as soon as I can. Since I don't have the file we won't be comparing apples to apples, but I can at least try a similar shape.

I know you have switched blades, but you could have a nicked blade. Some of the cuts look like that's possible. Others look like your force isn't high enough. There is still a lot of detail missing so it's hard to trouble shoot.

Ok - just cut the 120 lb. Canson watercolor paper at a force of 90 (could have done lower but just guessed when I did the test cut and it worked. So made 5 rounded rectangles that were close to what you had (1" long and 1/2" high) and cut them just fine. Force was 750.
Forgive the lighting on the photo but I wanted to get it to you. And I used a 45 degree regular blade because that is what I usually use unless I have issues or I know it's too thick. I just prefer it just as others prefer the 60 degree.

[ngrosjean]

Thank you for your help! My blade is fine, I have a macro camera lens I used to look at it, there are no nicks. My file looks fine too. And for a better idea of scale, the rectangles were about 1/2� x 1/8� and those were the largest I had to cut.

I have finally gotten a decent test cut, but not in the paper I was using in the original post. The sheet I was cutting from was from a new pad of paper that had a ‘new and improved’ sticker on the overwrap. So I’m working with some old paper (exact same brand/type) and it is cutting better. Unfortunately I can’t get that anymore, so I’ll have to search for something else.

I have to use a force of at least 180 to consistently cut through the designs. Another problem I’m facing is that the blade appears to retract the longer it cuts, so the designs at the end of the cutting aren’t always cut through. I’m attaching an image of the file I’m cutting now. As you can see, the paper looks much better, but the blade retracted after about four rows, and didn’t cut all the way. Everything in the blade housing feels tight.

[Gigi]

Ok - lets take first things first. If I was cutting watercolor paper that was just a little lighter at 90, there is no way you should need 180 force. You would be better off using a lower speed with a multi cut of 2 rather than cut with so much force. I wish I had the paper in hand so I could cut the same thing. If you want to send a few sheets to me, I would be happy to test cut it and show the results.

I can cut the circle smaller, but I can assure you that I will get the same results - again with a slightly different watercolor paper. Iwnr on Amazon to see if I can find what you are using, but unfortunately I cant get it here before Friday (no Prime available) so that took care of that - but I did see that it is 300gsm). So I have some Spectrum Noir watercolor paper that is 300 gsm - again it's as close as I can get and it's heavier than the earlier one that I cut.

I made a few rows and columns of circles that were .3 inches. My force was 96 - 45 degree blade. There are a couple of spots where teh circle is not 100% clean, but I was in a hurry and would have tried it again at 50 with a multi-cut of 2 to see if that cleaned up those couple. I did see that the Canson paper you were using is 100% cotton so it may behave more like a handmade paper and those can be tough. Again I would be happy to try that if you want to send me some - or you might consider a different watercolor paper that is not as problematic for you? I am guessing at that because I cannot test it, but I have cut a lot of watercolor paper over time without issue - I just have not cut that exact one.

As for the blade, it should not be retracting. Which holder are you using? Is it the regular blade holder? Do you have a different holder you can try - like a click blade holder? That is what I use almost all of the time, but that is my preference. Some like that - some like the regular holder. Either is fine, I am just hoping you have a different holder you can try as there should be no give in the holder. Are you sure that it is in the clamp tight?

I would also suggest that you try a multi cut as that will put less stress on the blade AND give you cleaner cuts when you are working with a media that is not as compressed. You can easily do that at full speed and it wont take you any longer and should improve your results.

[ngrosjean]

Thank you, I’ve always thought that 180 was excessive too. However, in all the tests I’ve cut it’s the lowest force that works. I have not experimented enough with multi-cut to get consistent results, but I will start working with it more.

Please do not try to get my watercolor paper, the company has changed it and the new formulation is the one that just shreds. I don’t have any of the old stuff left, so I can’t send you any anyway. Is there a high quality Hot Press Watercolor paper you would recommend for use in the machine?

I wasn’t aware of the click blade holder and will have to get it to see if it fixes my problem. My current solution is pausing the machine every so often and checking the blade.

[Gigi]

You should never have to pause your machine to check the blade. The blades dont slip. That's why I wanted you to try a different blade holder to see if that solved the problem of the slippage. You could have a defective holder or blade. Try a different blade and see if solves the problem - then at least we will know it's the blade holder if you are sure that the holder itself is not slipping in the clamp.

As for quality hot press watercolor paper - I am NOT an artist. Let's start there! I have Studio Fabriano 90 lb watercolor hot press (200 gsm and 25% cotton) that cuts like a dream and feels like a good weight. It is the only hot press that I have. It's not the 140 lb that you have, but I don't have any that weight that is watercolor paper. Is there a reason you need watercolor paper that heavy? I don't know what you are doing so exactly so just wondering if the heavier weight is necessary or if that is just what you had on hand. This machine can handle just about anything but density of any material will change how things cut and some materials do much better with a multicut set up.

We have people cutting chipboard and clay and fondant and sugar sheets and plastics, soft metals and on and on.

Maybe you can get some samples of materials that might work for you and bring them hoe to try out and see what cuts best/ easiest...And maybe you can get something that is not 100% cotton which might make a huge difference. Just throwing out ideas. But first we need to figure out why it seems like the blade is slipping......

EDIT: I talked with Sherri this morning about the watercolor paper and she reiterated that any watercolor paper that is 100% cotton will not cut well because of the density and it takes on moisture as we discussed earlier. And also whenever a company changes their product, no matter what it is, we often have trouble with the new product. When a manufacturer changes, we have seen differences in all sorts of materials from card stock to stencil material and more. So do look for a watercolor paper that had a lower cotton content and see if you can get samples to test cut - and use multi-cut for sure. I hope you can find the quality and cutter friendly material that you are looking for without too much trouble.

[ngrosjean]

Sorry for the silence, I was out of town for a few days. I purchased the click blade holder and a new blade to try. I’ve always had trouble with the blade slipping in the regular holder, so I’m hoping this will solve a lot of my issues. Thank you! I will also try some different papers with different cotton content, and thickness. I like the thicker paper because I layer the pieces in my work before I paint it, and the thickness helps differentiate the layers.
To see examples, my website is: www.paperfauna.com
I really want to push the amount of layers in my work, my most complicated so far had around 1,500 pieces all hand cut. I want to make fully scaled dragons with thousands of scales, and multi-winged archangels with 500+ feathers per wing. I really need my machine to function flawlessly to pull off pieces like that. So thank you for your advice, I’ve been very frustrated, and am glad to hear that the issues I’ve been having are more to do with the materials and possibly the blade holder. Both should be fairly easy to fix.

[Gigi]

This machine is a work horse and does cut flawlessly when the right components are utilized. There are a lot of factors that come into play with any cutting project - density of media, humidity, condition of mat, condition of blade, quality of cut file and on and on.

I am sure once you have the papers earmarked for ease of cutting, you will be able to create all of the things you plan. Your website is quite interesting - you are definitely an artist!

Good luck and do keep us posted.