Need detail blade help

[ARTbyGUNTHER]

Hello, my wife and I are brand new Cougar owners (we got ours less than a week ago) and we've been having fun learning to use it. We had been using the Click Blade Holder for all our initial trials and other than almost cutting through our mat a few times (whoops! but definitely not the holders fault ) the Click Blade Holder works great. Our problems arose when we switched to the Detail Blade Holder. We don't know if we're suffering from two different issues or if it is the same issue but causing two different results.

Here are the issues:

1- Any time the cutter initializes a cut, it seems to stutter. The cutter head moves almost into position, seems to almost bounce the head down and then back up, making a small cut, then moves the head again and proceeds to finish that cut. I don't know if this is expected behavior but this happens regardless of the "holder" that we have installed at the time. The main problem isn't the stutter but rather the cut that is made while it "stutters": with the Click Blade Holder, this initial cut is on pattern whereas with the Detail Blade Holder, this initial cut is noticeably off pattern. This off pattern cut happens both for designs we're cutting with SignCut as well as just the "Test" button cut. Also, the rectangle on the "Test" cut with the detail blade is not squared (the lines are slightly bowed and the corners are rounded but not uniformly making for a very misshapen rectangle).

2- The detailed pattern we attempted to cut is, for lack of a better term, warping. Once again this is only happening with the Detail Blade Holder. The Click Blade Holder does not seem to be exhibiting any warping effect. This shows up with the misshapen rectangles on the "Test" cut as well as very noticeable warping on the pattern.

Here is what we've tried to eliminate the problem (in no particular order):
A) Checked both forums If there are any other posts on this issue, we've been unable to find them (and apologize if this issue has already been addressed elsewhere on the forums).
B) Changed paperstock. The issue appears exactly the same in both cases (one is a thin and cheap cardstock, the other is high end watercolor stock). This issue did not appear with the Click Blade Holder on either stock.
C) Restarted the Cougar.
D) Adjusted the depth of the blade (to the point where there was less than 1mm coming through the paper).
E) Adjusted the depth(?) of the holder via the cd method recommend on the forums
F) Tried different force settings from 60+ all the way down to below 30 (at which point it no longer has the force to cut through the paper)
G) Tried different speed settings from a high of 100 to a low of 15

Some additional information:
A) These are brand new 60 degree blades (one for the detail and one for the click) so we don't suspect sharpness to be an issue
B) All the blades and parts are direct from Black Cat USA so we don't suspect blade quality to be an issue either

We're assuming the issue is something we're doing or not doing as we're still so new to this machine, so any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks so much and we apologize for the novel.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Otto. Thanks for al l the detail in your question, it makes it so easy to visualize what is happening. Unfortunately you have already tried any solutions I would have suggested based on the description of the problem. Someone more experience than I will surely be along to give you an answer shortly.

[ARTbyGUNTHER]

Thanks, Elizabeth; I wasn't sure if I should have snapped a couple pictures, too, so I'm glad to know it makes sense.

[LisaH]

Hi Otto and welcome!

The only other suggestion I can throw out is to try a 45 degree blade, if you have one. For some reason, I and my machine get along better with a 45, I cannot successfully cut with a 60 degree on anything. LOL And I know there are others that cut with a 60 degree most always... I know, not a lot of help, but I'm sure Dawn or someone else will have a better suggestion. This forum is great about helping.

[ARTbyGUNTHER]

Thanks, Lisa. I hadn't thought about trying the 45; I'll give it a go and update the post.

[Retta]

It sounds as if your offset may be set wrong. I am not at home to explain this with visuals. So bear with me. If you look up offset in the forum here.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=896&p=19172&hilit=offset+settings#p19172

This may correct the problem.


Make sure you READ it all! Edited to add this note

[ARTbyGUNTHER]

Quick update: I tried the 45 degree detail blade but the problems persisted. I am in the process of editing some video/photos to post and will have those up soon.

Thanks for the input, Retta. I had missed that post but I've read through it now. My offset is set to what Dawn mentions is the normal (0.0118) and the overcut is only on the very initial "bounce" cut; I would suspect (though I could be completely wrong) that if my offset was incorrect, that it would show up in more than the first part of the cut? Maybe?

However while looking at those settings I remembered that when I initially setup SignCut, I didn't know what Cutter to select. Since I have the 24" Cougar, I selected the "Cougar C-24". Does anyone know if this is correct? When I click the "Setup information about this cutter" link, it goes to a bad link unfortunately. I suspect either way it wouldn't effect the issue I'm having since even the "Test" button produces the issue but I've seen weirder things lol.

I appreciate the help though and will keep plugging away at it on my end. Maybe the video and images will help shed more light on it.

Edit: Meant to mention that that my overcut is also within the normal range that Dawn mentions in that post.

[Thyme]

Hi Otto,
I am very unsure about the "stutter" Is there anyway you can video this? Its not unusual for this to happen with the test cut but it isn't something I would expect to see with the actual proper cut.
Don't look at the test cut rectangle for any distortion or rounding of corners - the test cut does not take into account blade offset or overcut. If you think rectangles are being distorted then please draw a rectangle and send that to cut rather than using the test rectangle.
Can you photograph the cut to show me the "warping" One cut with the click holder and one with the detail would be great.
You have the correct setup, the Cougar 24 is the Cougar C-24

[ARTbyGUNTHER]

Hi Dawn; just finished the video. I'll cut a rectangle next and let you know how that goes. In regard to the test cut, does that mean that the different blades and holders will result in different "Test" rectangles? This is all new to us so we're trying to take it all in as fast as we can, lol. I've attached a couple of images below showing what we're seeing. Is this normal?

Below is the video of the "bounce". It has little to no effect that I can see on the Click Blade Holder but as I mentioned before (and you can see in the pictures below) it does seem to skew the Detail Blade Holder's cuts. Is this bounce normal? I haven't noticed it on any of the other Cougar videos but perhaps that's because the speed on those is too high to notice. For us, the slower the speed setting, the more noticeable the "bounce" is (though the results are consistent regardless of speed).

.



Thanks for again for all the help everyone!

Edit: I cut the rectangles and the lines themselves seem straight but the corners are still skewed like in the "Test" rectangle picture above. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

[Retta]

Otto, I'm sure that Dawn can help you. She is quite amazing as are all the others here. I took a look at your store and you are an amazing artist!!! Good luck!!

[Thyme]

The video is of the test cut though, I get the same cut with the test cut, you need to video a cut sent through Signcut.
The test cut rectangle is purely for checking cutting force, you will never get a quality cut from it because it has no overcut or offset values.

The drift in the small shapes is morely a skewing issue.
For the small cuts where they are not clean, try decreasing the offset and the overcut when using the detail holder. Try with an offset of 0.25mm and 0.2mm. Decrease the overcut to 1mm.
Then let me know the results of that please

[ARTbyGUNTHER]

Thanks, Retta! I really appreciate it. I'm hoping to add some papercraft art once I learn the ins and outs of the Cougar.

Ah, ok sorry about that Dawn, that makes sense. Its a little after 1am here now so I don't trust my brain to work properly anymore; I'll get a video of that for you tomorrow with the changes you suggest. Thanks again for all your help!

[Thyme]

okie dokie

[MaryP]

Hi Otto, have you tried using a pen to draw your pattern? It saves lots of wasted paper/card. It may also indicate what could be the problem.

The bouncing you refer to can happen if there is a hidden mark on your file, ie a dot (or something very small) that has no fill or stroke. The blade will drop for only a moment and then go back up again. I am not sure what software you are using but if it is Inkscape go to View>Display>Outline. If there is a stray dot/dash on your file it may show up. It could, of course, be hidden under one of the lines you intend to cut. Usually, the line where you might find the culprit may look a little darker but if it is only a dot it may not be obvious. Sometimes the only way to find this out is to use Path>Break Apart and click on the part of the file nearest to where you think this is happening and move to one side. If it is OK click the back button and try the next nearest object.

This may only make sense with Inkscape and I am sorry I don't know what you need to do in other software but I am sure someone else will.

[ARTbyGUNTHER]

Hi Mary,

I was in the middle of posting a detail update when I saw your reply and even though I don't use Inkscape (I use Illustrator), I think you may have hit the nail on the head! There aren't any stray dots but one of the tools I used to create my design (called Perspective Grid in Illustrator) automatically modifies shapes to maintain perspective and I think there is leftover data that is causing the problem. Upon further investigation, I can see it and it looks like its the culprit; now I just need to figure out how to remove it.

I'm going to go do some more testing but I'm pretty confident this is the issue. Thank you so much, Mary (and everyone else who tried to help!) Fingers crossed and I'll update the post with my new findings!

Edit: Argh I think I jumped the gun. I wasn't seeing what I thought I was seeing but I am going to give Inkscape a try and see if I have the same issues that I'm having with Illustrator.

[Thyme]

Thank you Mary, I never thought about that

[Suzan]

I use illustrator only myself, so if you want I will try to test cut the pattern and see what happens. But I don't use the perspective grid. I don't have a clue to what that is. my email is silvertip47@gmail.com. I don't get off for another hour and a half. But also you might try printing the pattern in illustrator and see if the problem is there before you even cut.

[ARTbyGUNTHER]

Thanks, Suzan. Sorry for the delay but I was away from my computer. I went ahead and sent the file if you still have time to take a look. Either way I really appreciate the offer of help.

[MaryP]

Hi Otto, it is a good idea to try Inkscape as that may determine whether it is your files causing the stutter. If it still happens in Inkscape it may warrant further investigation but I think I would try something drawn in Inkscape rather than your file converted before going down that route. I would not expect a stutter on every cut shape within a file unless you are creating the whole pattern from one shape. I only use AI to convert files so I have nothing but a very basic understanding of it. As you now know Suzan uses it and I believe her husband is very competent with AI. If you solve the problem it would be interesting to hear the upshot.

[Suzan]

Well I cut the file no problem, but I think some of my settings are off. It cut very smooth and I didn't drag out my detail blade holder, I used a normal blade.