Why do some lines cut through and others don't?

[gfleener]

I'm cutting mylar stencils. Is there any reason why some lines in my stencils will cut clean through with no issues, and other lines don't cut through at all? It's all using obviously the same setting, same material, same blade, all in the same cut job of course....it's like the fine, minute pieces are cutting out just fine, but the simple, broad outer shape of the stencils themselves are not cutting through which have no detail at all. I have 5 stencils on a sheet of material, and 2 or 3 will cut completely out, then the others will cut the stenciled design but not cut the outer borders. Even when the pressure is high enough to cut through the stencils and into the mat, it still won't cut through some lines with no rhyme or reason...any ideas? It's almost like it's not completing the 2nd pass over the whole job....like it may be cutting once, then partially cutting twice but not finishing?

[Gigi]

Is your mat warped? Are you watching it while it cuts? Are you sure it's not making the second pass? It's hard to know without seeing what is happening or having a design to look at or even try. There is no reason the machine will cut something differently, unless the blade or blade holder is slipping or the mat is warped. You aren't giving us much information to go from. 5 stencils on a 13" machine seems like a lot - what size are they? Want to know more and seeing the design might be helpful. You can upload it here as an svg or send to me at gigi@silverbulletcutters.com

[gfleener]

Yes I'm babysitting the heck out of it, pausing as soon as a piece gets stuck on the blade to remove it, and no the mat is not warped. It does seem to be just skipping over some areas on the 2nd pass...some cut all the way through and slightly into the mat, and some shapes you can see the blade just barely scratched the mylar. The stencils are small, about 2" x 6". I should get 5 out of a sheet but now I'm lucky to get 1 or 2 that work, and am wasting a lot of material. I will email you the file...thank you!!

[Gigi]

I got your emails but won't have time to look at them until later today. From the look of the photo you sent, it isn't cutting clean and it looks like the material is too thick to me. You should not be pausing the machine to release the blade from getting stuck in a material. If it is cutting properly (blade length etc) the blade will not get stuck. As I recall (and I could be so wrong!) you are cutting a material that is thicker than we recommend? That could be a large part of what is happening. Correct me please if I am confusing you with someone else.....

Will get back to you as soon as I can... In the meantime, please confirm the material you are cutting, which blade you are using, the settings you are using to cut etc. And if you can send a link to the material that you are cutting, that would be helpful. The more information we have, the more helpful we can be. Thank you.

[gfleener]

The blade is NOT getting "stuck" at all. Once in a while a tiny piece (one of the little shapes that was cut out) will stick to the blade itself and slide up...it keeps on cutting but I pause to pick it off so it doesn't cause problems, when this does happen. I do use a brayer to get the material stuck well to the mat.

Settings:
Blade offset .70 overcut 1 (found recommended in your learning center)
Multi-cut: 2 times
Pressure: 130 seems to cut just fine when it does cut 2 times...
Speed: 200
Up Speed: left at default 100. I have no clue what this is and can't find any descriptions anywhere.

Material:
I am using 7.5 mil Mylar, purchased here from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LY ... UTF8&psc=1

Before I purchased the machine I emailed with Sherri Jensen to be 100% sure that it would cut the 7.5 mil mylar as that is the only thing I need it for, and it was a huge investment for me. She replied right away with "Absolutely! Have people cutting 7 mil all day long..." So, I purchased it. Sherri suggested I get the 60 degree deep cut blade which I did and that's what I've been using. It IS cutting through wonderfully! Just not on some random parts of the design for whatever reason. The machine seems perfectly capable of cutting this material...I don't know why it's not completing all the second passes unless there's something wrong with the machine itself or the software that's telling it where to cut.

[Gigi]

Ok - good to know you are using the 60 degree plus blade. Your overcut should be 1.2 - the 1 is for regular blades. Your offset is correct for the blade you are using.

Earlier you said the blade was getting stuck, so I based my comments on what you said. And yes, 7 ml is fine - it looked thicker in the pictures - and there are all different kinds of mylar.

I doubt there is anything wrong with the machine or the software. When it does the second pass, what do you see happening? I have not had a chance to cut it yet, but hope to try later.

One thing you can try, is put a pen in and see if it draws it as it should but it - or use some lightweight cardstock with a regular blade and see how that cuts as that is what I will do when I try it.

I just cut it out of lightweight cardstock and set the multi cut to 2 to see how it would go. It actually cut everything 4 times. It was really evident on the larger pieces like the circles and stencil itself as they were easier to see. I just took your file apart and you have two images for every piece in there which is a lot of unnecessary information to send to the cutter. So when you sent it for multi cut at 2 - you are actually cutting it 4 times which explains also why pieces are popping off because you are "overcutting" it. You also have many unnecessary layers . I would delete all of the duplicate pieces, close the etching layers and group the cutting layers - so you have one group not five separate groups. Then I would close the cut group layer and group just the etching - ungroup all first and then do just one group. That will make for a much better and cleaner cutting file.

So again, as it is now, you should see it going around each image four times with your multi cut set at 2 - since you have two images for each cut and then the multi cut gives you two more.

And 130 twice seems way too high even for two passes, let alone four! I have some .007 plastic/mylar that I will test later and see what force cuts it.

I just did a test cut on some .007 plastic that I have and it cut perfectly clean at 80 - one pass.

See if some of this helps you in the meantime.

[gfleener]

Thank you! I will play with it some more in the morning! I'm not sure where you're seeing two images of every piece...I am only seeing one in my file! Though I'm not as familiar with the software so not sure how you "broke it apart." I drew the stencil in Illustrator with the etched lines in one layer, and the cut lines in another layer. Then I imported it into SCAL via the script. But I wanted more than one on a sheet so I just copied/pasted the stencil. I'll have to figure out how to group just the etch and just the cut line groups together so there are two groups...but still not sure how you see two of everything?

[Gigi]

Close the eye on all of your etched layers (see figure 1) so you only have the cut lines showing. (see figure 2)

Now you have just the cut lines showing. I changed the orientation to portrait for my own cutting ease. Now select all and break apart. Then I could pull the rectangular outline apart. I then selected the circle on the far left and pulled it out. It was one circle. Then I broke it apart (Object>break apart) then I could pull a second circle apart of it. (see the items in red - those are just two of the duplicated items. Figure 3 ) You have duplicate items in every single cut file. You should have been able to see when it cut that it was going around the items four times - two times in one direction and then two times in another. You have a lot of unnecessary layers created which happens sometimes when you design in Illustrator and then cut in SCAL. Files often need to be cleaned up.

If you look at your file, you have cut layers and etched layers under the import files. click on the arrow by the cut file and see the images drop down (see figure 4) See how you have duplicates of each shape? So you can select each duplicate there and send it to the trash can (at the bottom of the layer file) which is an easy way to get rid of the duplicates - or you can break it apart in the file and delete the duplicates. Make sense?

And on another note, not all mylar and/or plastic is the same, but you can see where I cut my .007 plastic at 80. I probably could have gone lower, I was just testing and 80 worked easily - and that was one pass with the 60 degree plus blade. Without having your exact material, I cannot say what pressure you should be using, but I am pretty sure that you are using too much pressure based on my trial.

[gfleener]

Thank you!! Ok, I figured out how to get all my cut and all my etch layers merged so there's just one group/folder of each. I found where to "break apart" my cut portions. But then it turns everything into solid black shapes and it's really hard to see what's going on...why does it do that and how do I turn it back into lines? The rectangle outline of the stencil turns into a solid rectangle and covers up all the details.

So is there some glitch with the Illustrator plug-in? Everything is clean & simple in Illustrator, one layer for cut & one for etch, with no duplicate layers or lines. Why does it duplicate everything when I import into SCAL? How do I prevent this in the future? I'm designing everything in Illustrator.

I will try lowering the pressure...but how would TOO MUCH pressure make it NOT cut through on some pieces? I'm still not sure why, even if I clean up this file, it is not cutting through some. I will try to get rid of all the duplicates and see what happens, but why would this make a difference? If anything, having too many cuts should make it cut TOO well, right? And why would my same original file cut fine for you but not for me? The only difference at that point is the machine, right? Sorry for all the questions...thank you for your help and I'm learning a lot...just still no idea how this would matter in the ability to cut through all the pieces... I'll be home later this morning and will give it another go with some other material. The weird thing though is that it was cutting through everything fine last week, and I hadn't changed anything with the settings or file when it started to just suddenly skip over parts...

[Gigi]

After you break apart, then select and merge. That will put things back together again. and "change" your solid black areas. Just like you have ungroup and group, you have break apart and merge.

As for the skipping, I don't know. I would watch the file cut when it is just doing one or two passes and see if you can actually see it change in cutting. I would double check the blade and blade holder to be sure there is no slipping. In doing so many repeat cuts, you might have cut into the mat and nicked the blade which will give you sporadic cutting. Without actually seeing the machine cut it is hard to say. I would put some simple images on a mat and cut them out of card stock just to see if it cuts those fine after checking the mat, blade etc.With as small as some of the cuts are in your file, you could have a little piece sticking to your blade and interfering with the cuts. That is the problem with doing too many cuts as those small pieces are being released from the mat and popping up. I know you have been trying to stop and pull them off, but you shouldn't have to do that. Cleaning up the file may help with that.

I don't design in Illustrator - in fact I don't use Illustrator at all. Are you sending directly to SCAL from Illustrator? If so, I would try saving what you do as an svg and then import into SCAL and see if that changes your results. Also be sure that you have chosen Illustrator from your Edit>Preferences menu

[MeFlick]

First let me say, I have not seen your actual files. Either the AI file or the SCAL file. Second, what i am outlining here may be "simplified," it is not meant as a slight to anyone and your knowledge of either program as I know just enough but either to be "dangerous". However, I have been cutting for a number of years now and I do have both Illustrator and Corel Draw and have imported and seen images imported from both over the years and have seen a few things that can cause "duplicate" images that the person doesn't realize that are there and wanted to explain how it usually occurs. Once you understand that, it is fairly easy to fix. It is not a glitch with either program, or the plugin, it is just the "difference" in how the programs "see" and understand files for their "needs".

As you know, AI is a software developed mainly for Illustrators and Artists. It was created for making "visual" creations. Originally, and even now, mostly those visual creations are made to be seen on "printed paper" or on "screens." Meaning it was originally for creating items to be "seen" but not necessarily "cut" out on a cutter. Which is why you need a software program like SCAL or others to tell your cutter how to "cut" the images.

The problems that people using the "drawing" programs can run into when trying to take those "visual" files into a cutter program is that everything "drawn" in AI and other like programs do not always "convert" correctly to a cutting file. To best understand, you first have to understand that in the cutting programs like SCAL, everything is seen as an item, object or line, to "cut" unless you tell it otherwise in some way. In SCAL, you can do that in different ways. For example, I believe you can tell it to only print a line or an object by assigning it to a non cutting line. You can hide the layer it is on when cutting, so it does not cut, etc. Once you understand that about cutting programs, you have to understand what is being done in the drawing programs like AI before you import your file.

When working in AI, or other outside drawing programs, you also have to understand that all objects, items usually have two things that make up that image when it is "drawn" in that program. First, it can have a "fill" which is usually a color, gradient, or a pattern that "fills" the object. Second, the object will usually also have a "stroke" around it. The stroke can also have a color assigned or can be simply a black line around the object basically "outlining" the object. That stroke can be a small width, or a very thick width or anything in between. Not all objects and items in AI and drawing programs will necessarily have both. It is up to the person creating it in AI to change whether or not it does. I believe, by default objects and items have a fill and a stroke. This is great for "visual" art that will be seen as it helps the "eye" "see" the objects correctly. The problem begins though when you want to bring those "visual" items into a cutter program to be "cut." When you bring it into a cutter program, there are really two objects there to be "seen". I will use a simple circle as my example. The circle created in AI is really two circles on top of each other. One is a circle with a "fill" and the second is a circle with the outline or stroke. Thus, to the cutting program it sees that "fill" as one object to be cut and the "stroke" as a second object to be cut. Since they are basically on "top" of each other, the end user doesn't realize that they now have two objects that will be "cut" out - one on top of each other. The way to "fix" this problem when you are creating in AI to take the image to a cutting program like SCAL, is to create objects with only a fill or a stroke but not both. That way, there is only one object to be cut. If you don't, you will have multiple objects on top of each other as I have explained. In addition, I have seen people "hide" things in AI by using white stroke and fill for example, but they are not "hidden" when brought to a cutting program. If you have an object you don't need to cut, eliminate it before taking the file over to the cutting program.

Once a user understands this about cutting programs, it is easier to create files in drawing programs like AI that will not create a lot of duplicate items. I have seen some users that will basically have two files in AI or their drawing program. One is for the "visual" side for the "seeing" and one is for the "cutting lines" that need to be sent to the cutter. The one with the cutting lines is simply the "outlines" of the objects. This is why I always take the time to "break apart" files that I have traced or imported to make sure that I don't have duplicate items on top of each other.

In regards to your question about the color fill when you break the objects apart in SCAL, typically in a cutter program, you are dealing with "closed" shapes and "open" shapes. If a shape is "closed" it will have a color fill to show you that it is closed. If it is an "open" shape, it will not have a color fill to let you know that it is an open shape. In a cutter program, a "closed" shape means that all the drawing points meet up to "close" the cutting line into one shape. In an "open" shape, the drawing points do not meet up and close the shape. There is a small gap somewhere in the drawing line. This can be important to know and fix sometimes. In SCAL, you can have it show only the outlines only or change the opacity of an object to see through it better if you prefer not to see the object as a colored object. You can also change the color of the object in SCAL to another color.

I hope that explains the "how" you get multiple objects on top of each other and how to fix it so that you don't. If I simplified it too much, I apologize. If it doesn't make sense still, let us know and we can try to explain again better.

Another quick example to help explain is when people "trace" an image into SCAL or other cutting programs. Typically, a "trace" is done when you have an object or an image that is not a "vector" image which means it does not have "cut lines". When you "trace" an image into SCAL, you will often get similar results. You will get two objects on top of each other because it "sees" the image as the filled object and then the cut line. It "sees" the outside of the stroke as one object and the inside of the stroke or the fill as another object. That is why I always break objects apart and check for duplicates whenever I trace or import an object in to make sure i do not have duplicate items on top of each one.

I am afraid that I cannot give any real insight into the cutting issue that you have and why it is not cutting through in spots. Typically, this can occur if there is a problem with the mat not being flat which you have denied being a problem with your mat. Also, if your mat has a lot of residue stuck to it it can make it "uneven" and cause some problems with cutting but if you are only cutting mylar, I would not think this was a problem. Have you taken your blade holder out and looked at the blade tip, you can do this with a magnifying glass. Make sure that the tip is not chipped or broken (it happens) and if so, that can cause some of the cutting and not cutting in spots as well. While you have it out, take the blade out of the holder and make sure that there is not anything stuck up in the blade holder that can cause the blade to not swivel and cut correctly. This can also occur, especially with tiny bits of mylar, card stock or vinyl.

What we typically want to do is figure out and eliminate what typically are causes of the majority of cutting problems for users before we jump to the conclusion that there is a problem with your specific cutter. Most often, the problem is not with the cutter its self, but with the file, the mat or the blade, the setup, etc. By checking all of that out first, and eliminating those issues (or finding issues and resolving them), it is easier to know that it may be a problem with the cutter. That is why they will ask to see the file, and ask what media you are cutting on so they can try to see if their machine can cut it. That is why they ask you to cut or draw it with a different media, blade, etc. so we can see if it cuts on a different media fine, draws it fine but won't cut it, try a new mat, does that fix the problem, check the blade for broken tips, or stuck media, etc. as each of those are checked, and checked off you narrow down what the issue(s) can be.

[MeFlick]

I wanted to add a quick note here, if you want to "see" the difference in taking different objects/items from AI into SCAL - use some basic shapes - do some with a fill and a stroke, some with just a fill, and some with just a stroke, import into SCAL, break apart and see where you have duplicates and where you don't have duplicates. That will help you understand the differences in what you "see" in a visual object and what you want to see for a cutting program.

[Gigi]

Great info and explanations Melanie. Thanks so very much!

[gfleener]

Thank you so much!! I do know Illustrator and the world of vector art well, and 3d modeling software too, but the cutting software is new to me. All of my shapes in Illustrator have a black outline and NO fill, so that is what's confusing me as to why it would import as a filled shape AND a stroked line on top of each other. But I can do some experimenting with basic shapes to see if I can figure that out. Maybe if I make the shape with no line and no fill, basically invisible, it'll come through as one piece...

At any rate, I was able to go in and delete all the duplicates! Thank you for discovering that Gigi...I'm really anal about keeping my files clean and simple in Illustrator so that bugged me to see that, haha!

I have checked the blade, and did realize it was chipped a few days ago...changed to a new one and the issue actually started with the new blade! (which does not appear chipped) I didn't think to look INSIDE the blade holder but took it apart and it looks good, though had some tiny mylar crumbs. SO, I'm going to give it another whirl with my cleaned up file, try a new blade again to be safe...the mat is still new, flat and free of debris so that shouldn't be an issue but I may order a new one & more blades to be prepared!

Thank you all for taking the time to muddle through my newbie-ness with me! While this has been a super frustrating process, I am still at least learning and figuring out ONE piece to the puzzle each day that I work on this!

[gfleener]

Okay...it is seeming to work MUCH Better! But now I have a different problem! Now it's not completing all the way around each little shape...leaving them still attached, not totally closing the shapes. What's going on here? Is this from changing my overcut to 1.2? or was there some other setting? I haven't changed anything else other than backing off on the pressure. I know the shapes are closed in the design file...

[Gigi]

I show 1.2 on overcut for the 60 degree plus blade and offset at .7 and that was how I cut that file with closed images. You saw how it cut. I would cut it out of a lightweight card stock first to be sure it is cutting correctly before using the mylar that you are. It could be the product you are using - or the run of the lot that you have. We have seen it happen where the manufacturer switches the product adn it isnt exactly the same as before and it doesn't cut well - or cuts differently. Be sure you file is cutting as it should on the card stock and then use the material you have. And if it ends up cutting better with a different overcut, then change it back. Sometimes you just have to fiddle with the settings but those are usually right on. That's why I would try it out of cardstock first and once you know it is fine, switch to the mylar. Then if you have problems, it is the product. Again, it doesnt happen often like that, but it does happen.

[gfleener]

Ok, thank you! Now it seems to be closing fine...not sure what changed...but I will try card stock too. On another note, I've chipped a few blades and am just wondering before I spend too many hundreds more dollars on more deep cut blades...what is the best way to prolong their life? Use less pressure but more passes? More pressure but slower speeds? Is there any kind of formula that is best to help them last? Any advice that can save me from the expense of chipping them all through trial and error would be AWESOMELY helpful!!

[Gigi]

Well you want to be sure they aren't digging into the mat as that will wear them down or chip them. And hitting them on the edge of the mat will chip them. The problem with cutting a mylar material is that it is plastic. And cutting any plastic will wear a blade down MUCH faster than cutting card stock or another material because of the friction and heat created. It is very hard on blades.

New users tend to chip blades a lot - it's just part of the learning process, but over time it gets better! I cannot remember the last time I chipped a blade and mine last for a long time, but I don't cut a lot of plastic product. Multiple passes at a lower force can be helpful too - you just don't want to be digging into the mat - ever! But again, as long as you are primarily cutting plastic, it will wear down - not necessarily chip, but lose it's sharpness quicker......