PnC Photo MTC or SignCut hobby? Newbie help!

[riogirl71]

Hello!

This is my first post here. I am looking to buy a cougar and need to decide between Sign cut hobby and Made to Cut software before I order the bundle for the cutter. This is what I would like to do...

Print a photo on my printer and then have cougar cut it out. I use photoshop a lot so I would like to print a high quality graphic/photo and then have it cut. I found a vinyl that can be printed with regular inkjet then used for wall art. So I am talking about a high quality jpg that would be printed then cut.

Is signcut hobby better than MTC for this purpose?

How do I get my registration marks on my printed jpg photo? Does the cougar read registration marks and adjust the cut?

Do I have to autotrace in inkscape and then export it to sign cut or MTC for it to cut or do these programs have a trace function?

I have used PnC with craftrobo and inkscape but the quality of the photo print going through inkscape was not great but the cut was made accurately. Inkscape did not like the larger files, it print and cut great with small vector graphics but not with photos.

I am concerned about printing a good quality photo in high resolution and then having it cut accurately on a cougar, I have found that between printers, inkscape and different programs, the paper and scale of things get modified.

If I buy a cougar do I need to purchase separate items to be able to cut vinyl? Does it cut vinyl without a mat?

Any other tips and hints?

Thank you!

[newbiecat]

Hello

The first question that comes to my mind is do you want to contour cut ? eg cut around a figure in an image, because I know that Inkscape cannot send an image to cut in Signcut - it can only send vector images ....

So if you want to cut around an image you will need to create another layer in inkscape, trace the outline you want and the hide the image and send just the vector outline to signcut. I have photoshop and can't quite understand why an image imported into Inkscape would not print equally well as it would printed directly from Photoshop....... perhaps this is something I have just not experienced ..........

As for cutting vinyl I have just cut a whole heap of names from vinyl using the detail blade holder and a 45 degree blade, so it depends on what comes with the cougar as part of the package which may vary depending on the supplier however I think that Tyler is the man to talk to in the USA which is where I assume you are based..... if not then Dawn in the UK.

I did use a mat for my vinyl cutting though only because I was using an A4 sheet and I wanted to ensure it didn't slip whilst using the maximum amount I could so therefore placed it on my A3 mat to keep it straight. I believe that many cat owners have cut vinyl without using a mat depending on the size of their cutter and relevant size of the vinyl

I would recomment getting the support tables which help to keep any media more stable when cutting.

There is a fairly steep learning curve when you first get a cat however like all good mountains once you make the climb the view is tremendous from the top and then everything is downhill and easier .....

Good luck with whatever decision you make

Pandora - 18" cat owner former cricut and pazzle owner and very happy with my cat !

[rachellann]

Sign cut is a very good cutting software but it is not a design and cut software you would have to design in another program such as corel draw I think that is the one or inkscapethen cut in sign cut. MTC is a design and cut software and with it you would have to use the KNK plugn in in that software to get the three point registration cut. it is totally up to you which softwares you are the most comforable using the Cougar works with either and are awesome machine my biggest problem was deciding on which size Cougar to get.

[riogirl71]

Thank you for your quick reply.

When printing a photo for pnc with Crobo and inkscape, I created reg marks on a svg template, placed the jpg on inkscape, then traced an outline, hid the outline and printed on my printer straight from inkscape. Then hid the photo and reg marks and sent straight from inkscape to cut in Crobo just the outline. After some calibration it worked great but inkscape could never handle large res photos without crashing.

I like the features on the cougar and that's why I am looking at one here in the US.

I think there is an extra step in PnC a photo here. Without having tried Signcut or MTC I am just trying to figure out how to do a PnC and which software would be better for this... How does sign cut know where my photo was printed then?

Sorry if these are silly questions. I am just trying to figure out what to order and how to go about my pnc dreams!!!!!!!!!

Rachel - which size did you get?

[rachellann]

I got the 18 because I did not need the biggest which is 24 since I already have a large machine inwhich I load 30" vinyl so the Cougar cuts everything else I wish to cut.
Thyme has some very nice video of signcut doing contour cut on her forum and I think Tyler has done some vidoes also on sign cut but please don't quote me on Tylers videos as I have not checked out his latest also Rob from scrappydew has some vidoes on his site .
but always remember to think about what you intend to do with the machine, 2 amount inwhich you can afford to spend on the cutter it's self and what software you are the most comfortable with IE; advanced software user or just a hobbist, if just a hobiist then I might say MTC would be far easier to go as that way you only have to learn one program for designing and cutting.

[Tyler]

Hi riogirl -

Welcome to the forum! I think I can help answer a lot of your questions. I have done extensive work with print and cut in both programs - one of my designers files (Scrapbook Circus) are all print and cut, and are set up for both MTC and for Inkscape/SignCut. I also had discussed this with some more advanced users from Inkscape developers. Since you are using photoshop and you have used cutting machines before, it sounds like you are more or less familiar with the vector and raster format/properties. I will answer your questions, but try and include a bit of background so you understand the underlying process. Hopefully it isn't too technical! If it is, I tried to put my basic thoughts in summary if that helps.

I also wanted to say that MTC is one version of software that has some basic designing features as well as a cutting interface built into it. With Inkscape/SignCut, Inkscape is the designing software, and is quite advanced for that matter while SignCut is the cutting interface. You would design in inkscape and cut in signcut, but it isn't bad since Inkscape includes its own export menu to signcut (you don't have to go through all the saving of a file and opening it from another program). Just wanted to clear that up.

Print a photo on my printer and then have cougar cut it out. I use photoshop a lot so I would like to print a high quality graphic/photo and then have it cut. I found a vinyl that can be printed with regular inkjet then used for wall art. So I am talking about a high quality jpg that would be printed then cut.

Is signcut hobby better than MTC for this purpose?

As I, and others, mentioned above, SignCut is more of a cutting interface, not the designing interface. For cutting, I think SignCut is better. Your question here though is dealing with designing so I will compare Inkscape to MTC for this matter rather than SignCut.

With any photo, you have your image/document size and your resolution or pixel size, which on a simple level, takes into account the size of the printed final version and the quality of that print. With Photoshop, for example, you could have a 3x3 inch image at 300 dpi (900px by 900 px) or a 3x3 inch image at 72 dpi (216 px by 216 px). When you import an image into MTC, it takes into account both the dpi of the image as well as the image/document size, so there is no resizing involved. When you import and image into Inkscape, version 0.47 only takes into account the dpi of the image and assumes that 1 px of photo resolution is equal to 1 px measurement. It ignores the document size.

So in our example above, if you imported the two pictures, both 3x3 inch - one at 300 dpi and the other at 72 dpi, MTC would display them both as 3x3 inch pictures (though one would be a better resolution), and Inkscape would display one at ~3x3 inch and the other about 3-4 times larger since its dpi was 3-4 times larger. What I am trying to say is that Inkscape ignores the document size when importing a photo.

That being said, you can easily fix it in Inkscape by entering the size you want the photo to be in its property box and the issue is fixed. It maintains its resolution without a problem!

If you are using the same image at the same size, printing between the two programs is identical, and the same printing options are given to you from both programs.

How do I get my registration marks on my printed jpg photo? Does the cougar read registration marks and adjust the cut?

In MTC, there is an option to automatically print registration marks on your image. In Inkscape, you have to place them yourself (or there is a file you can download with them preset). From what I understand, it sounds similar to what you were describing to what you did with the craft robo (though I have never owned one and am just guessing).

The cougar does not read registration marks itself, as does the silouhette with the optical eye. Rather, it has a pinpoint laser that you align to the registration marks using your keyboard and the program adjust the size/angle of the cut based on where the registration marks are located. Once you understand the process, it is more accurate and works on a wider variety of media than do the optical eye cutters. Basically, you print out your paper with the registration marks, put it in your cutter, tell your computer you want to do print and cut/contour cut and where the registration marks are with your keyboard, and it will make all the adjustments regarding where it will cut.

From my experience, I prefer Inkscape when dealing with raster images. Let me explain why. First, it lets you manipulate objects better than MTC currently is able to do, which has saved me a lot of frustration. Second, I find that the node editing tools are more useful/easy to use in Inkscape than in MTC. Third, me having to place the registration marks is not a problem either - I just saved the the registration file as my template file, so every new document I open from Inkscape opens containing the registration marks. Furthermore, because Inkscape allows you to put the registration marks more or less where it is convenient, you have a little more freedom with design placement. You also have the option to get more accurate print and cuts by spacing the registration marks out further, though the difference may be hard to notice if a machine is well calibrated. In summary, Inkscape has better manipulation or raster, node editing tools, and flexibility with registration marks, and increased cutting accuracy (though some would consider this negligible).

Do I have to autotrace in inkscape and then export it to sign cut or MTC for it to cut or do these programs have a trace function?

Both have good tracing features, though I think that MTC's tracing features are the best for the cutting world. It depends what you will be doing with them. If i just need a one color trace, I like inkscape fine. If I want to do several colors (and select which colors they are) or if I want to trace a photo with an alpha layer (gif, png), then I use MTC and copy/paste to inkscape. It is a personal preference. You could get the trial version of MTC and see which one you like better.

Depending on how big your print and cuts/contour cuts would be, make sure you are aware of the size limitation of SignCut hobby edition. It is a little larger than 24 inches in length. MTC is unlimited.

I have used PnC with craftrobo and inkscape but the quality of the photo print going through inkscape was not great but the cut was made accurately. Inkscape did not like the larger files, it print and cut great with small vector graphics but not with photos.

I am concerned about printing a good quality photo in high resolution and then having it cut accurately on a cougar, I have found that between printers, inkscape and different programs, the paper and scale of things get modified.

As I said previously, the quality of the two programs in printing quality is the same, so you can't really go wrong with either one at the moment. I can say that a program locking up will greatly depend on your computer speed. Also, if your computer is locking up with an image in Inkscape, it will most certainly lock up in MTC. MTC is not able to handle the raster files nearly as well as Inkscape. It is getting better, but will be much slower than Inkscape is when dealing with a raster image, hands down. Like I said, with Inkscape, it is easy to change the paper and scale of an object to match it exactly how you want it, so that really isn't a problem. When life calms down a bit and I finish up on the learning center, I hope to start doing more webinars, and I would be happy to show you how to do it in either program if you still have questions.

If I buy a cougar do I need to purchase separate items to be able to cut vinyl? Does it cut vinyl without a mat?

Everything you need to cut vinyl comes with the machine! It is always good to get replacement blades though. And yes, you can cut vinyl without a mat. Here is a 2 foot wide section of a project that I am working on that is 7 or 8 feet long, all cut without a mat (it will be a growth chart). Alternatively, you can use a mat if you wish!

lizard height chart.JPG

Any other tips and hints?

Again, welcome to the forum! I hope I didn't write too much of a book (do I get an award for the longest post??), but I also hope that I helped you understand a little better how the programs work. These machines really are wonderful, and I can't say enough good things about them! In the past, some have complained about the learning curve of the machines. Though it is the same as all heavy duty machines, with the addition of the learning center (which is still being added to with more lessons and videos), hopefully we have gotten rid of the major hurdles that people were facing and it isn't quite so daunting.

Anyways, feel free to always post questions and someone will be along with an answer. If I am available and feel I can add more information, I will be sure to pipe in as well!

Best of luck!

[Tyler]

Wow - if someone who writes for Reader's Digest wants to translate that down into English, feel free to.

[Gigi]

Wow Tyler - talk about a thorough answer!! Nice job

[Angel135612]

Great answer Tyler... I enjoyed reading your post, and it was very thorough. (Personally, I would prefer a longer answer that goes into detail, than simple, "yes you can do that or no you can't" answers)

Another point on the issue of the different programs printing at different sizes, could that not also be a matter of the print driver ( or what ever it is) "adjusting" the size of the print, if you don't make sure that you are printing at 100%, and don't let the computer automatically scale the image? I thought there was some talk of that in PnC discussions, and why some people have had problems. The printer wasn't printing at 100%, so the "cut line" wasn't matching up with the "print". (Just thinking that could be her problem with different programs printing at different sizes)

[riogirl71]

Wow Tyler I cannot tank you enough for your through answer.
Thank you for the explanation on inkscape reading the pixel size that really finally clicked! Your response was great and not too technical!
Now that I have played a while with inkscape, I really like their autotrace feature, the font conversion to paths and node handling. I have dabbled in other programs for different uses (font editing) and really think that inkscape is much easier and straightfoward once you get used to it. The fact that you can export easily to sign cut is a huge bonus since I like the design features in inkscape. I saw now that inkscape lets you link and not embed a photo, that might make it easier but I haven't played with that. Is it ok now to use Inkscape .48 with signcut?

You said that for cutting - Signcut is better than MTC - can you tell me why that is? If you are making the same cut on both why would sign cut do better? Smoother?

Glad to hear there is a template for inkscape for reg marks and that you calibrate yourself, this way there is no reinventing the wheel! With craftrobo the reg marks have to be pretty spot on, I thought it was interesting that you could move them in your template for cougar to cut!

With the size limitation in the hobby signcut, can you tile your project then if you want something longer? How long will the cougar print? I could not find that info just the width.

Angel - yes that is sometimes an issue between my inkscape documents or Photoshop and my printer, some things get changed automatically, depending on US letter, A4 or where you print it. I am careful to adjust all of those to the same setting but some times between the different programs it is not exact, thank you for the heads up!

I also saw in this forum that Blackcat is coming out with their own software, will that work with inkscape?

So far seems like I have this:

MTC
pros
no limit in length of project
better trace features
automatically prints reg marks
cons
not as easy to manipulate as Inkscape

Signcut hobby + Inkscape
pros
better manipulation/drawing features
better cutting?
cons
limitation on length (can be overcome with tiling easily?)

Am I close?

One more question on PnC, all the one I have seen on video are 8.5 x 11 pages, if I were to get a printer that prints 12x12" can I still print and cut?

Again sorry if some of these questions are silly but without actually having the cutter or the programs it is hard to figure it out, since the cougar is not cheap I would rather not spend to buy two programs and stick with one.

Thank you soooooooooooooooo much again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tyler]

Wow Tyler I cannot tank you enough for your through answer.
Thank you for the explanation on inkscape reading the pixel size that really finally clicked! Your response was great and not too technical!
Now that I have played a while with inkscape, I really like their autotrace feature, the font conversion to paths and node handling. I have dabbled in other programs for different uses (font editing) and really think that inkscape is much easier and straightfoward once you get used to it. The fact that you can export easily to sign cut is a huge bonus since I like the design features in inkscape. I saw now that inkscape lets you link and not embed a photo, that might make it easier but I haven't played with that. Is it ok now to use Inkscape .48 with signcut?

You said that for cutting - Signcut is better than MTC - can you tell me why that is? If you are making the same cut on both why would sign cut do better? Smoother?

Glad to hear there is a template for inkscape for reg marks and that you calibrate yourself, this way there is no reinventing the wheel! With craftrobo the reg marks have to be pretty spot on, I thought it was interesting that you could move them in your template for cougar to cut!

With the size limitation in the hobby signcut, can you tile your project then if you want something longer? How long will the cougar print? I could not find that info just the width.

Angel - yes that is sometimes an issue between my inkscape documents or Photoshop and my printer, some things get changed automatically, depending on US letter, A4 or where you print it. I am careful to adjust all of those to the same setting but some times between the different programs it is not exact, thank you for the heads up!

I also saw in this forum that Blackcat is coming out with their own software, will that work with inkscape?



One more question on PnC, all the one I have seen on video are 8.5 x 11 pages, if I were to get a printer that prints 12x12" can I still print and cut?

Again sorry if some of these questions are silly but without actually having the cutter or the programs it is hard to figure it out, since the cougar is not cheap I would rather not spend to buy two programs and stick with one.

Thank you soooooooooooooooo much again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glad it helped!

Right now, SignCut is not compatible with .48. I used to use it, but ended up finding bugs when dealing with print and cut and a few other things, so I wouldn't use .48. The auto-embed feature of .48 is very useful though!

For cutting, I like SignCut better for a few reasons. First of all, it has just about every option under the moon for ways to cut, divide, or tile your image that you can think of. The cutting also seems to be a little more smooth with the machine, and if you are one to set your cutting speed and force from your computer (though I would recommend doing it from your machine), SignCut is better calibrated than MTC is. If you are doing very complex images (such as an engraving with a fill), Signcut seems to handle it better - some have said they have troubles with engraving from MTC and they experience locking up. All that being said, if you were to hold up the same cut made with both programs, you probably wouldn't be able to tell any difference.

You can always tile anything, without a problem to get over the cutting length limitation. The machine itself can cut an unlimited length. I have cut one role of vinyl that was 20 feet long before. Would I do it again - no way. It is too hard to handle after it has cut (trying to put transfer tape on that long of a piece and still keeping it strait was a nightmare. If you do really large work, You would probably want to never cut something much longer than 8 feet. Again, it isn't a limitation of the machine, rather it is just too hard to handle after if you don't have a HUGE table and professional tools for masking the vinyl.

Regarding the software, yes, they are working on their own software, though that is all the information I have. They were hoping to get something out soon, but there were quite a few setbacks. There is no expected time date for that to arrive. Until that point though, Inkscape/SignCut or MTC will work great!

Regarding size of your print and cut, you can do any size. Most people just have a smaller printer.

So far seems like I have this:

MTC
pros
no limit in length of project
better trace features
automatically prints reg marks
cons
not as easy to manipulate as Inkscape

Signcut hobby + Inkscape
pros
better manipulation/drawing features
better cutting?
cons
limitation on length (can be overcome with tiling easily?)

Am I close?

yeah you are very close! great job

MTC
pros
no limit in length of project
better trace features
automatically prints reg marks (could be seen as a pro or a con)
generally easier to learn
cons
not as easy to manipulate (this is mainly with images)
Slower with raster images
Less features
can have problems engraving

Signcut hobby + Inkscape
pros
better manipulation/drawing features
better cutting (again, opinion)
Can do engraving better
significant more options/features
cons
limitation on length (can be overcome with tiling easily?)
a little harder to use

Those are just some things off the top of my head. Both are really good programs, though if you already know inkscape, that sounds like the way to go!

[riogirl71]

For cutting, I like SignCut better for a few reasons. First of all, it has just about every option under the moon for ways to cut, divide, or tile your image that you can think of.

I think that is a huge selling point!
20 feet long wow! That is huge! I agree that the longer it is the harder it is to manage, I found that especially on items that are identical on each side so that you have to keep a constant level so the fact that sign cut can tile anything is huge. That would also overcome the limitations of an inkjet printer on print and cut by tiling a large photo and prinitng and cutting portions of it, correct?

Thank you for helping me so much in making a decision, signcut/inkscape it is!!!

I can't wait to get the go ahead from hubby on ordering my cougar!!!!

You guys are awesome, and I checked out your shop and oh the goodies!

[Tyler]

Just thinking about this and realized I forgot to mention that often times with the Adobe Creative suites, you will have Photoshop and Illustrator. Illustrator has print options more similar to Photoshop, and it takes into account the size and the resolution of the image. You can also export strait from Illustrator into SignCut like Inkscape. Just another option.

[Gigi]

And Corel Draw is another program that will export straight to Signcut. I know several people who do all of their designing in that program!! It's all about having options, right??!!??

[riogirl71]

I only have Photoshop and not Illustrator - I need to win the lottery in order to support my hobbies I love playing with photoshop and especially making unwated things disappear from pics. But that is a whole other story!

While I have your attention I was wondering if I could bug you for more advice. While I would love to go ahead and order every single accessory for the cougar (most likely a 15") I have to be thrifty right now and was hoping to later get things such as the embossing and engraving tools. So far looking at the shop it seems pen holder and blade. I was looking at the click blade holder with: 45 degree, 60 degree and 60 degree plus. Also a 25 by 14 mat.

Does this sound about right to start?

How much more detail is the detail blade holder and blades for? I tried reading and searching but could not find a level of intricacy that the regular blade would be outdone by the detail blade holder. For starters I think I should be ok with the click holder but was curious as to how samll of a cut this made a difference.

Do the blades come with instructions or where can I find cheat sheets on which blade cuts what and the settings to use, at least a starting point.

Thanks again for sending me in the right direction!

[Tyler]

It sounds like your going in the right direction. A new mat is a good thing and you are getting the right blades as well. The detail blade holder can do some really intricate cuts, but it can wait - the machine is more than capable of getting your detailed cuts right now without while you are learning.

The only thing I would change: I would get the engraving tool before the click blade personally - they are all great, but if you know how to use the blade holder that came with your machine, then you won't notice that much of a difference with the click blade holder (that being said, I love the click blade holder, especially the color!)

Usually, Sherri ships her blade with instructions. However, here is a brief rundown

45 degree - vinyl and paper
60 degree - thicker cardstock
60 degree plus - thicker materials in general

That is just a guideline. I use 45 for a lot of stuff, but others use 60 for the majority of their cutting. So try what works best for you.

You may also really want to look into the got to have it all kit. It is a bit of money, but it does end up saving you quite a chunk in the long run if you plan on getting everything eventually.

[riogirl71]

I ordered it! I am so excited I cannot wait to try it out! I ended up getting the pen holder, embossing and engraving tools. Now I need to find the time - we have a 3 mo old and a 3 year old! YEAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thank you again for taking the time to help me, I am sure I will have more questions down the road!!!

[Tyler]

Congrats - you'll love them!