Very disappointed

[silvairelining]

We bought a Cougar this past March with the Gotta Have it All package (spent right at $1000 with shipping). The machine is well built for a desktop, 2-axis CNC cutting machine. We had not gotten around to trying it out until this past weekend.

Overall, the software and driver install was painless as was machine connection (it's only USB). No issues at all there.

Machine performance is another story. I have spent hours systematically testing and the machine is just not cutting as well as it should. Maybe my expectations are too high.

There is a lot of setup and trial and error required even to do something rather simple such as lettering. Sure, as you find what works with a particular material you can make notes and return to those settings, but there is still a lot of effort required; it becomes more work than it is fun.

We've used multiple pieces of various weights of card stock making incremental changes and repeatedly using the test cut. Changes in the quality of the test cut squares is apparent with adjustments from the machines keypad. Yes, we've used multiple blade types (detail and non-detail with appropriate holder). The paper is rolled down very well; I've found that to be one of, if not the most, important step in the process.

So far, the most success has been with letters, and most successfully a "flying" Rio Grande logo used on the Denver and Rio Grand rail line.

I've read lots of suggestions in the forum and, as said previously, we've been very systematic in our testing with using different settings and blades and such.

We'll keep plugging at it, but it is very disappointing to spend that much money and not enjoy the machine.

Dan and Caroline

[Gigi]

I am sorry you are unhappy but I can almost assure you that if you hang in there and follow the directions, you will love your machine as much as we all do. There is a learning curve and none of this will deny that. And we all have taken notes on material and as we get the right settings we make a notation so it is easy to return to that. After a while you will become accustomed to the weight and it will be easier and easier to instinctively know how much force you need. And lettering, even thought you feel it is simple, can be one of the more difficult things to cut because there can be a lot of nodes and that makes the cut more intricate. Have you had success cutting just simple shapes out of different materials to start?

If you can be more specific with your issues, perhaps we can be of more help. I will assume you have been to the learning center and watched the videos. If not, that should be beneficial.

In order to offer suggestions, it would help to know what software you are using and what material(s) you are attempting to cut. There are so many things that could make your cut inconsistent - the type of paper (as in density and darker colors can be more challenging), being sure your blade holder is set at the right height, brayering the paper down as you have said you have done - that's good.

If you can help us with more details, I am sure there will be plenty of suggestions to get you up and running. It is a great machine as you become more comfortable with it, but it is not plug and play. Once you get a feel for the right settings etc., you will be creating all sorts of things and loving it. It is a powerful and amazing machine.

[PennyDuncan]

I so agree it WILL TAKE TIME for the 2 of you to become friends!!!! This is a machine that is made for the long haul...a very durable and well made machine... which as well as the Silver Bullet.... has the ability to do so many more things then any of the other cutters of the market....and because of that DOES indeed have a learning curve.....you can cut from the most delicate of paper such a Tissue Paper all the way to engrave on Stained Glass......ONCE YOUR GET FAMILIAR with what the machine can do.....

My I suggest setting aside several blocks of time to just play with the machine...watch the amazing tutorials in the Learning Center...there is truly a wealth of information there........Like Gigi I can tell you once you get more familiar with the machine you will absolutely LOVE it.......

[CeCeCreates]

I struggled so much at first. Quality of card stock means a great deal too! I find my machine so easy to use now that I laugh at myself how I struggled in the beginning. It does have quite a learning curve, but hang in there, and keep plugging away. One day it will just all make sense.

[rachellann]

I am not sure I understand what you have mentioned you mentioned the Cougar but in the next Line you mention a 2-axis CNC cutting machine, and then state that it is only usb- this is where I am confused because all the cougars that I know of have usb and a serial port. Like the others say if you can sharre more information it would be more helpful in directing you to the proper solution.

[Gigi]

I would suggest you register for the BC Forum and see if you cannot get a lot of your questions/concerns answered there. I did not see you registered yet, at least under that username.

If you can let us know where your machine was purchased we can see that you get the appropriate support.

[silvairelining]

I am not sure I understand what you have mentioned you mentioned the Cougar but in the next Line you mention a 2-axis CNC cutting machine, and then state that it is only usb- this is where I am confused because all the cougars that I know of have usb and a serial port. Like the others say if you can sharre more information it would be more helpful in directing you to the proper solution.

I see how my choice of words could be misleading. A little about me first. I have been an IT engineer for almost 30 years. Computers are what I "do" for a living and getting the machine connected and operating was very straightforward. Connecting USB devices is simple; it was meant to be so by design and that was really the point of my statement (yes, the machine does have a serial port). I'm sorry that wasn't clear (please don't take any of this the wrong way - it is not meant to be condescending!).


Re: the comment about card stock quality being a factor - no question about that at all. I have been trying different materials, both different weight and quality, and some simply do not work well in the machine at all even when using the test cut from the machine keypad. The test cut is a nice feature since it allows you to adjust the parameters with the key pad and gauge the difference immediately.

As I said in my original post,I think it is a very well constructured machine. I was impressed with the quality, including the blades and tool holders. I immediately preffered the standard tool holders over the click-type since the former give you much more adjustability( since the adjusters are threaded they are theoretically infinite).

Re:Gigi's questions - we purchased the machine at 'That's Scrap". We're using SCAL for cutting software since a license was included with the purchase of the "Gotta Have it All" package. I did down-load and install the latest version from the web-site.

Dan and Caroline

[Gigi]

Thanks for taking the time to respond to our questions. That's so helpful. Glad you have the updated version of SCAL.

I think if you register for the learning center you may see some things that are helpful. Also re: the difference in cardstock, sometimes putting it on backwards (like Bazill that is textured) will give you a better cut. I have yet to find a card stock I cannot successfully cut, albeit there is trial and error. These machines often perform better at higher speeds. Not sure what speed you are using to cut, but you might also consider that. And if there is a particular issue that is giving you a hard time, feel free to post a picture as that gives us the visual to really understand what you are saying.

There is a wealth of information on the forum and at the learning center. I hope both of these will help you over the often bumpy learning period. Trust me, we have all been there!

[rachellann]

If you haven't yet update you scal to its latest version there have been many improvements.

[silvairelining]

Thanks for taking the time to respond to our questions. That's so helpful. Glad you have the updated version of SCAL.

I think if you register for the learning center you may see some things that are helpful.

We are registered actually, just under a different username.

Also re: the difference in cardstock, sometimes putting it on backwards (like Bazill that is textured) will give you a better cut.

That makes a lot of sense. I'll file that away. Thank you.

These machines often perform better at higher speeds. Not sure what speed you are using to cut, but you might also consider that.

Yes, I've seen others in the forum mention using higher speeds. One of the things I have done is use the keypad to make testcuts and then adjust the speed and pressure and gauge the result of the changes ( I make two testcuts at each setting). Indeed, in some cases a faster speed, 450mm/s and up, worked better.

And if there is a particular issue that is giving you a hard time, feel free to post a picture as that gives us the visual to really understand what you are saying.

It's not any one particular thing really.


Dan

[tamihowse]

Hey, Dan. I also briefly had buyer's remorse, but after I worked with my Cougar for a few months, I loved it. It is a wonderful machine. I'm having a blast with it. There is a learning curve, even for IT experienced people. Once you get going, you'll develop your own rhythm, and it will become second nature.
I have found that some paper just doesn't cut well (mainly Bazill). The less fibrous paper actually performs better, IMHO (however I'll take suggestions from anyone). You'll find your faves after a while.
You'll also find that this is a fabulous group. People are so willing to help, and I've often had answers within just a few minutes. It's a super resource, so test us! We'll be more than willing to help you!
Fondly, Tami

[Suzan]

There are a lot of reasons with paper why it doesn't cut well. Humidity can play havoc on cutting, fibers or glue in the paper. Bazzill well I think it is the name of the paper. As very wise person told me when cutting bazzill to cut with the textured side down and do two passes. I am cutting the most intricate snowflake tree right now out of bazzill. It has 4 12 x 12 sheets for each tree. About 40 or so snowflakes ranging from large to the size of a quarter. each stem of the snowflake have 14 pointed branches. Not one problem. But I think it is because I learned to cut it twice at a slightly less force rather than once with a deeper force. Also I am cutting these flakes at a speed of 450. I started at 300 speed and keep going faster and faster to see how much it will do. No problems. I started with a Cricut and there is learning curve. And my husband is an IT guy, so I have become very savy in certain elements. I got smart after a few years. Ask him how to do something and write it down LOL. OF course I have to keep asking. LOL. Any way. I have found trying to get ready for a craft show, somethings work great first time out. Others I am going to have to work with to learn the details as to why it didn't work for me. You will find, you will come to love your machine. I have been cutting vinyl now for over a week, without a mat, leaving it on the roll. It is awesome. Some of things have lines that are less than a mm thick. But it has taken time to learn what works and how it works, then there is usually no problems. I honestly am saying this from being in the position that I got my cougar cut thru my first mat on the first cut, couldn't even figure out how to load the mat, and put it away for weeks, got it back out and we have had a few battles, but for the most part now with my silver bullet, I love them both, in fact tomorrow the cougar is coming out of the closet an getting hooked to the laptop so I can race back and forth to get things finished on time. This forum and the UK Forum are a wealth of information and help. Just don't get frustrated it will all come together.

[Retta]

May I make a suggestion and this may not be an issue, but may help. I've found that many people who are new to owning a machine do this and it causes the most problems. Please ignore if it doesn't apply.

When setting the blade depth, I learned that I was actually setting it too deep. I really just couldn't tell I was until Sherri told me about this little trick. My test cuts were working but I was still tearing paper and sometimes it wasn't cutting through. I thought it had to be too shallow. But, it was actually catching on the mat.

Here is the best tip and has worked every time. Take a corner of the paper you ate cutting. Fold it over on itself. (While it is on the mat.) Take the blade holder from the machine with the blade in. Pull it across the folded portion of the paper. If it cuts through the top piece of the folded paper and barely scratches the bottom sheet of the fold, your blade is probably set right. It still requires a test cut. This method has saved on paper, mats and blades.

If this isn't the case, I know you will get it resolved. Thanks for reading this far.

[silvairelining]

Hello all:
Thanks very much to all those that have replied!

But I think it is because I learned to cut it twice at a slightly less force rather than once with a deeper force. Also I am cutting these flakes at a speed of 450. I started at 300 speed and keep going faster and faster to see how much it will do. No problems.

That is excellent information. I like having numbers only to have some kind of base-line from which to start. No, it's not guarenteed since there are many variables that affect the outcome, but having information such as "with this brand, weight and color of paper, start with a 60 degree detail blade with the machine set to use speed S, force F, offset O, etc. to cut a moderately detailed pattern (maybe post the .SVG with it)", it would be of great benefit especially to new owners such as my wife and I.

The information on the vinyl is also helpful because one of the things I want to be able to do is make decals for large scale model railroad cars and locos using self-adhsive vinyl stock. It is hard to find decals in the correct numeric scale (some of the companies have gone out of business. Scaling is a non-issue thanks to the software packages that are available and the railroad fonts are commerically available as well.

When setting the blade depth, I learned that I was actually setting it too deep. I really just couldn't tell I was until Sherri told me about this little trick.
.
.
Here is the best tip and has worked every time. Take a corner of the paper you ate cutting. Fold it over on itself. (While it is on the mat.) Take the blade holder from the machine with the blade in. Pull it across the folded portion of the paper. If it cuts through the top piece of the folded paper and barely scratches the bottom sheet of the fold, your blade is probably set right. It still requires a test cut. This method has saved on paper, mats and blades.

That's an excellent technique. When we first started working with the machine, we came up with our own method of checking the depth that is a little similar. What we did is take a piece of the paper stock, hold it down over a piece of balsa wood, pull the blade and holder across the paper and see how deep it scratched the balsa.

For setting the tool holder height, a 3/32" piece of balsa is used since that is within a few thousandths of an inch of two CD"s ( I read about the two CD trick on the forums).

The less fibrous paper actually performs better, IMHO (however I'll take suggestions from anyone).

My limited experience agrees. We bought a package of 75 sheets of various colors. I don't remember the brand, but I recall it being labeled as "Bright colors" or just "brights". We found that with some of the sheets that the fibres "pilled up" and interfered with the blade and those sheets were noticeable more fibrous. The paper quality also seems inconsistent to me but I don't want to waste higher quality paper while practicing.

Anyway, the good news is that I worked with some of the shapes in the SCAL shapes library and got some pretty clean cuts last night. I have a hard time walking away from it since I want it to work(I started at 9 PM and the next time I looked at the clock it was 1:30 AM!).

[Retta]

I have found the paper packs are not consistant on each color or sheet either. It sounds like you are well on your way to figuring it out. I never use the CD method as I just set the blade. I prefer the detail blade holder as I love detailed cuts. I can't wait to see all your create if you will bless us with pictures of your creations. I have great confidence in you figuring it all out.

Blessings!

[tamihowse]

Retta, you've inspired me to work with my detail blade more often. I've hardly used it, but I love intricate cuts. After my 2 craft shows next week, I'll have to do some playing! Tami

[Retta]

Well let me know! I hope you love it like me.

[tamihowse]

Will do!
Fondly, Tami

[Soraya]

I would encouraged to visit Penny Ducan's blog. She has a list of papers/materials and blade/force/speed settings that I have handy all the time. That's a good starter and gives you an idea of the machine.

[silvairelining]

Success! My wife Caroline is working on a wedding album for a family member and she wanted a shadowed banner in a fairly intricate cursive font. It's two layers cut from paper stock (f = 55,s = 300, 45 degree detail blade). It took more time to lift it off the mat without tearing than anything else (I let Caroline do that!! )

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